tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post4122698226416894422..comments2024-02-19T00:39:49.642-08:00Comments on We Alone on Earth: Why are some aggregates "smarter" than their individual components and others are not?Mhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-85095037748056672902010-08-28T08:22:32.030-07:002010-08-28T08:22:32.030-07:00Can you build a set of tools for talking about the...Can you build a set of tools for talking about the what complexity classes of algorithms emergent aggregates can implement ?<br /><br />This seem to be related to your little flocking problem from a while back.Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-45336965035199432822010-08-28T08:21:37.139-07:002010-08-28T08:21:37.139-07:00question : does characterizing the "computati...question : does characterizing the "computational power" of an aggregate system necessarily require reducing it to one of the existing formal models of computation. Or, can you show that an aggregate can implement algorithms from X complexity class without necessarily reducing an existing formalized computing system to the aggregate ?Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-64352919968007515512010-08-27T10:52:27.562-07:002010-08-27T10:52:27.562-07:00We had a similar discussion in meatspace over here...We had a similar discussion in meatspace over here recently, actually. <br /><br />with respect to "are brains organized differently than society" it was noted that<br /><br />-- connections in the brain are somewhat fixed. at least, there are a finite number of other neurons a cell might connect to, and this number is much smaller than the total number of neurons<br />-- neurons are Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-53215659774023198192010-08-27T10:46:26.465-07:002010-08-27T10:46:26.465-07:00oh but the trivial not-actually-an answer is that ...oh but the trivial not-actually-an answer is that complex systems ( even with high topological entropy or whatever that weird thing is ) are not inherently intelligent. Intelligence is merely a fitness metric. Systems capable of reproducing and evolving, that are selected by a fitness metric similar to what we use for intelligence, evolve to be intelligent. Systems that can not undergo selection Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-54119148163053511922010-08-27T04:40:48.761-07:002010-08-27T04:40:48.761-07:00Perfect sense. Ants-bees-termites-nakedMoleRats ha...Perfect sense. Ants-bees-termites-nakedMoleRats have already diminished a sense of an individual. <br /><br />Depending on who you talk to, humans are somewhere along the spectrum evolving toward a eusocial structure.<br /><br />Science fiction is dotted with explorations of this, though at the moment I can only think of The Borg and the most recent movie version of the Time Machine, or Brave NewMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-25831161186602864162010-08-27T00:06:36.946-07:002010-08-27T00:06:36.946-07:00I would like to focus on the first question. First...I would like to focus on the first question. First rewind back to before brains, the beginning of cell cooperation, everything wasn’t streamlined for the cells. They had a primitive communication protocol compared to today, possible starting out with a bit of synchronization with primitive neurotransmitters. The point being is that they slowly evolved into the brain increasing the efficiency of Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06102440870363902889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-13854321002050357582010-08-26T16:25:18.137-07:002010-08-26T16:25:18.137-07:00then again, maybe its just a poorly written articl...then again, maybe its just a poorly written article.<br /><br />"The following elementary setting contains germs of notions and results described hereafter"<br /><br />seems like a bad sign to me.Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-66961335139722594212010-08-26T16:22:07.601-07:002010-08-26T16:22:07.601-07:00all right, I'll try to plow through this but, ...all right, I'll try to plow through this but, let me know if you share this sentement : <br /><br />I really wish math papers were written out in english, instead of this shorthand notation. Notation can be ambiguous. Sometimes you assume notation has one meaning when your readers are accustomed to another. Sometimes your readers have never seen such notation and have no way to query what it Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-63229211143765624202010-08-26T16:20:57.933-07:002010-08-26T16:20:57.933-07:00yeah i just got one of the books from the list, i ...yeah i just got one of the books from the list, i may try to break it down and figure out whats going on, if i find some timeBeckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15623702114152344862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-16392025131912850812010-08-26T16:13:40.756-07:002010-08-26T16:13:40.756-07:00yeah I can't read that.yeah I can't read that.Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-91098347276034165122010-08-26T16:00:57.197-07:002010-08-26T16:00:57.197-07:00i sat through multiple Peter Sarnak talks about th...i sat through multiple Peter Sarnak talks about this at the Ias, once last year, once in the summer at pseudorandomness workshop<br /><br />I was just reading that other one, I didn't know topological pressure was a thing... this is awesome<br /><br />http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Pressure_and_equilibrium_statesBeckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15623702114152344862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-8207433083543641052010-08-26T15:55:59.256-07:002010-08-26T15:55:59.256-07:00you have got to be kidding me... I didn't know...you have got to be kidding me... I didn't know Topological Entropy was a real thing. I guess I could'v googled it, but Beck, where do you learn this crazy math ?Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-75088639318053208642010-08-26T15:54:29.366-07:002010-08-26T15:54:29.366-07:00there's more stuff about this here:
http://ww...there's more stuff about this here:<br /><br />http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Topological_entropyBeckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15623702114152344862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-71390353051391136722010-08-26T15:52:43.102-07:002010-08-26T15:52:43.102-07:00@Everett
I mean even if we can't evaluate &qu...@Everett<br /><br />I mean even if we can't evaluate "intelligence", if we could evaluate which systems are well-suited and ill-suited to learning certain computational tasks, that would be interesting. <br /><br />Topological entropy is maybe not intuitively related to intelligence... it is some kind of complexity measure for a dynamical system. Has to do with, counting the growth Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15623702114152344862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-75586991422674065972010-08-26T13:48:06.115-07:002010-08-26T13:48:06.115-07:00there was talk of ants and bees today. they have c...there was talk of ants and bees today. they have castes, but no defined connectivity structure. there are many forms that emergent intelligence can take, and I don't think we've found any method of analysis applicable to all of them.Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-13084369771847407632010-08-26T05:02:13.004-07:002010-08-26T05:02:13.004-07:00SO, I'm gonna be late but
define topological ...SO, I'm gonna be late but<br /><br />define topological entropy as the information entropy of the bit string representing the adjacency matrix<br /><br />numerically estimated by the usual procedure of building up a historgram of the distribution of binary words.<br /><br />lets set the binary word length to either the number of nodes in the graph, or a word length that evenly divides the Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-76908180652239470412010-08-26T04:40:38.494-07:002010-08-26T04:40:38.494-07:00I'd say maybe theres no a-priori requirement t...I'd say maybe theres no a-priori requirement that a collection of complicated things interacting in a complex way need to be "smarter" than its constituent components. Natural selection has helped a lot, especially with the nervous system.Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-10932651742374372162010-08-26T04:36:09.176-07:002010-08-26T04:36:09.176-07:00I've not looked into this, but the canonical &...I've not looked into this, but the canonical "well connected" graph that everyone wants to pretend is happening in the nervous system is "small world network with a power-law distribution of node degrees". Well connected, and fractal. Of course its not that simple, to get a working cortex you need dozens of interacting cell types organized in almost crystalline precision. Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-70067995143547311572010-08-26T04:16:05.148-07:002010-08-26T04:16:05.148-07:00small.world.network.small.world.network.Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-255765354647516808.post-4343075449747635462010-08-26T04:15:47.861-07:002010-08-26T04:15:47.861-07:00Single neurons are actually pretty smart, as far a...Single neurons are actually pretty smart, as far as cells go. Dendritic computation and whatnot.<br /><br />"people establish some local network of people they trust and respect, through which they receive information, and these parameters of trust and esteem become establish and then fine tuned as life progresses, perhaps not unlike neural network weights"<br /><br />nice.<br /><br />IMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05279969393617122722noreply@blogger.com